Celo and Regenerative Finance

Hi Jose,

There is a lot in your note. I’ll respond to your specific questions, but, as your note demonstrates, this is a really complicated question that is hard to discuss in a chat forum since it has so many side threads. I would be happy to voice with people on Discord or something if there is an appetite.

I would also suggest a couple principles should guide Celo’s action and that any proposal should be judged in light of these:

  1. We aim to increase the flow of capital to the individuals and entities actually executing conservation and environmental protection through transactions rather solely to secondary market actors.
  2. Those transfers should be connected directly to actions and behaviors that drive conservation in order to scale the change that we seek .

I think that the theoretical answer to your question lies in the concept of ecosystem services and valuing natural capital as a “stock” for a region or country. The MEA back around 2001 offered a framework for thinking about the services that nature provides to the economy, which has held up pretty well. Most economic activity is dependent directly or indirectly on some form of stable natural service such as having access to clean water, predictable weather patterns, fiber to harvest, pollination of crops, etc. In a market economy, those should all be valued and some of the profit from selling clothing should actually be directed towards people who have maintained rangeland and forests that sustain the pollinators and water that cotton crops use, etc. In reality, we don’t price those things and the only economic realized value out of landscapes comes from some form of extraction (and typically depletion of capital stock). The exception lies most in the cap and trade systems that have been tried piecemeal over the years.

This problem has been recognized for a while and I think that many of the posts on this sub are speaking to this point. There is a LOT of literature out there (happy to share some references) and many pilot efforts in different domains. However, there have been few breakthroughs because it is quite complicated to figure out how to set the right pricing and no politicians want to be the ones that internalize the cost of ecosystem damage into the markets. Some people would gain, but most would see inflation of prices in the short term.

I’m not sure how blockchain specifically can change this since the problem lies in laws and governance rather than friction which can be removed through better technology. There is a small but active stream of capital that flows from people who would like to sponsor conservation whether it is through voluntary carbon credits (which is a market mechanism that still depends on charity) or direct donations. I think that blockchain could remove friction for these use cases, which would have benefits as long as we could solve the validation problem. I show you a picture of one square kilometer of the rainforest. How do we know that it still looks the same way tomorrow? Or the day after? Or the day after?

Taking physical world system of certification and using the blockchain to support the movement of certificates certainly is an option. If the certifiers are good at their jobs and there are standards to govern an assessment, then the problems of validation could be solved. Perhaps smart contracts could be used to make flows of payments conditional on additional approvals by validation (see Kilt Protocol). However, I don’t see how this necessarily improves on the current approach or the money flowing to projects. You can already buy credits online. The limiting factor in scaling the market is motivation of people to spend money on credits and conservation when they are not required to do so rather than a market mechanism.

To your question on the value of a standing forest, the MEA would probably be helpful to your question. It is usually in:

  • Eco-tourism, non-timber forest products or other community-based economic activities. Proven case, but small revenues as compared to mining and forestry.
  • Carbon credits. Mostly confined to voluntary markets with low price due to low demand. It’s voluntary.
  • Payments-for-ecosystem services schemes. Pretty rare, but you can find functioning ones in Ecuador and Colombia. For example, a hydro operator pays upstream landholders to protect forest to prevent siltation of the dam and save on operating cost etc.
  • Spiritual / cultural value. Literally priceless and usually only enforced through courts and laws protecting rights of indigenous peoples’ and/or national park legislation.

You could establish payment schemes for things like watershed filtration if there was the political will.

For Celo and blockchain, I would see the three most productive directions as being:

  1. Look for a vehicle to invest into green bonds as part of the reserve. Liquid, regulated, impact frameworks, and financial attributes suited to a reserve;
  2. Institute a carbon tax. Divert a small fee from every transaction into a reserve fund that will purchase carbon offsets and invest into other ecosystem service schemes. Economists have told us for decades to use carbon taxes and forget cap and trade. Why doesn’t blockchain show it in practice?
  3. Look for use cases where blockchain can reduce friction within function mechanisms and allow them to scale. Don’t set up valuation schemes that are dependent on legal frameworks and complex change management. Help projects issues NFTs that are time bound and can be sold to raise funds for the project. Embed into the smart contracts that any NFT onsales send a commission to the originator. Use Kilt or something to require a validation/verification. It is very doable to design, but gets too complicated to write out in a forum posting. Don’t try to create extensive secondary markets for those NFTs since the majority of the subsequent value capture goes to speculators rather to communities or the environment. I would be happy to voice with people if there is an interest in exploring this.

@Terblig
2. is already implemented, a portion of each epoch reward goes to an account which contribute to carbon offset projects on Wren Celo's Profile | Wren

Recently Came Accross 2 projects with similar Goals.

KilimaDao which is focusing on backing assets with locked Carbon Credits. nice but as said carbon credits aren’t quiet what we are looking at.

NFTREE where each NFT is for a specific real tree. Maybe These could end up being part of the solution? Could see them being bridged over to Celo. Of course the mkt cap is way to low right now to support reserve level buying and the project has controls in place to prevent whales from owning too much. still seems like a potential partner at some level

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Sorry - forgot to add one…for the carbon tax, we would have greater impact if we offered an incentive payment to node operators who could demonstrate that they have switched over to renewable energy sources. Perhaps Kilt could be used as part of this solution. Credits have their uses, but they do not necessarily lower absolute emissions, which has to be the absolute priority for the next 10 years otherwise we miss the window to stay within 1.5 degrees warming for the next several generations.

On the tokenized trees and land, I see that as an idea that has captured interest and is indeed a natural use of the blockchain. I haven’t yet seen the mechanism that would:

a) motivate people to buy the token;
b) ensure that the proceeds go to the land manager; and
c) ensure a continued flow of funds to maintain the incentive for the land holder to maintain their conservation practices.

We’ll put aside verification, but that is also critical. There are plenty of projects out there which have falsely claimed conversation actions.

I’ve put some ideas about how such incentives might work in my earlier posts. But simply tokenizing land and selling that token as an asset will likely work against conservation and worsen the situation absent a tight system for delivering on the three points that I list above.

This is great! The Philippines has been named as one of the top ocean polluters due to a high single use plastic sachet economy with poor waste management enforcement. There are a number of organizations that have started ocean bound plastic collection efforts that can benefit from this! The challenge though is most of these organizations do not understand blockchain and/or have tech resource. Would be great if we can have a starter kit or guided process for them to apply for a grant or be partnered to projects! :slight_smile:

brilliant thank you i love this topic :slight_smile:

Hi @jose_u,

on your statement about the operational objective of Celo reserve, How could it be possible to maintain a decentralized and regulated system of this kind? I imagine opening these tokens to the public or regulating them just for a certain group or number of institutions.

Not sure I understand. Are you worried about NatCap tokens ending up “in the wrong hands”?

as you both commented on trading and the market or currency state, what’s your perspective on tokens or credits that prove carbon, Tº or CO2 reduction, among others? These can only be commercialized once in a period of time, considering the time lapse its function? Would it mean for a company who commercializes these tokens to have a certain status and eventually lose it?

I guess a company could think of those tokens as revenue in a particular year. To give an overly simplified example: Company would purchase piece of land, plant trees, trees grow and capture carbon, captured carbon is translated into carbon credits. Proceeds from selling carbon credits (ideally) finance ongoing company operation + some extra that can be redistributed. (The big question probably is whether the proceeds are sufficient to cover ongoing costs)

Also, how could you fix the initial price of a token? How could you manipulate or regulate that price? To renovate tokens circulation, would you simply remove their liquidity, considering they could be in a DEXs? What’s up with the general public who bought these tokens to keep in long term hold or simply speculate?

Here we need to distinguish between the token that the the forest/company/dao and the token that reflects the carbon credit. The price of the carbon credit token is determined by supply/demand for voluntary offsets (until we have some other regulatory/legal environment). The price of the forest/company/dao token could be determined by the anticipated stream of carbon credits generated. Similar to how a stock price reflects the discounted flow of dividends back to the shareholder.

Launching a v2, v3 or v4 of a particular token every term, reflecting its ecological contribution in a period, would reduce their commercial capacity? If we aspire to commercialize this token in a CEXs, How could we keep it circulating, considering its renovation?

IIUC this goes back to the question of whether emissions in year t can be offset with carbon removals in year t-x. As long as this is possible, any year t-x token “floods” the year t offset market. I don’t really have an answer here because as long as “accounting principles” allow market participants to do this, I don’t see this changing. But there are other people here with more experience in the industry who can hopefully share their perspective. I guess it would be a big ask for a project developer to voluntarily retire unsold credits in year t to keep the supply in year t+1 limited if the same developer could also sell its vintage credits. I guess from a technical perspective, one could think about putting an expiry date on a particular credit token (and after the expiry date the token can no longer be officially “retired”) but I am not sure if this would be sufficient to address the underlying problem.

I’d be happy to connect with you over the NCP portfolio and regarding the tokenomics behind Loam or Regen.

Let’s maybe move this to DM

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I think who ever said the paragraph below was correct and defined the problem in a paragraph.

“Launching a v2, v3 or v4 of a particular token every term, reflecting its ecological contribution in a period, would reduce their commercial capacity? If we aspire to commercialize this token in a CEXs, How could we keep it circulating, considering its renovation?”

But this problem can be quite simply overcome with a innovative business model,that is not that complex.

I should imagine the diverse and impressive team behind the celo climate collective project have overcome these issues amongst others. I presume they are keeping it quite to maintain first mover advantage(which is a good idea).

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Speaking on behalf of the Regenerative Finance Program (a builder subset of the Climate Collective):

A big part of the reason we’re “quiet” is we just need some time to develop out our ideas and align all ecosystem participants. But the joint roadmap we’re working on to improve the diversity, liquidity, and quantity of natural capital assets on Celo is :deciduous_tree::deciduous_tree::deciduous_tree: right now.

Expect a lot of movement in 2022 as roadmaps get implemented.

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Keep up the good work guys. I look forward to 2022.

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Hey Papa! I’d love to align with where you’re at on all this and join forces!

Hey – definitely! Feel free to shoot me a Telegram DM @papa_raw

Brief update here…

Our simulations effort on tokenizing seagrass was published in two parts here and here.

We’re moving into a second design sprint to iterate on the natural language specification for a generalized smart contract framework for natural capital asset production. This is roughly articulated as the “natural capital system” in the Kolektivo Whitepaper.

We intend to test this spec against some key regenerative finance projects at the end of this design sprint at the beginning of March. If your project is aiming to produce tokenized natural capital assets, I’d love to evaluate your architecture.

Cheers.

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Hello
thanks all for all this sharing!
I am learning and understanding this “part” of ReFi and this post is great! Slowly going through it.

I see no message in the last 8 months, where are these conversations taking place today?

I have a few comments/questions:

Why does this money system need to “grow”? Is there any problem if we rephrase the question to: How can we devise a money system that naturally leads to ecological regeneration?

I do not grasp the direct (linear) link between i) economic growth (i.e. increase in money circulation) and ii) increase of preserved natural assets that back the currency. An economy can have an increase in money circulation without having an increase in monetary mass, right?

The opposite wold also be true, right?

Do you mean “they represent ownership over a specific forest or farm”?